Zack & Nick's Culture Cast
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Leftover Questions: ‘The Dark Knight Rises’ Edition
After thinking about and fully digesting the latest Batman movie, elements of the story started to really fall apart for me. It was a lot of little things that did not quite add up. So, in the spirit of Zack’s earlier Prometheus edition, I offer my own leftover burning questions I had from the newest Batman flick.
Please, feel free to leave comments regarding these questions. It is possible that some of these questions were answered in the movie. The movie is pretty dense, so it is possible that I missed a few things. If my questions get answered using stuff from the movie (and not just fan speculation), I will gladly cross them off the list!
Also, this is article is going to be full of spoilers. If you have not seen the movie yet, turn back now.
1. Why does Bane engage in an elaborate escape sequence from a CIA plane to capture a doctor when he already had the doctor to begin with?
2. What did Bruce Wayne actually do each day for the past eight years? How come he didn’t have at least a passing interest in what his company was doing?
3. How come no one cares that the hero police commissioner was mysteriously attacked and shot in the sewers?
4. How would bankrupting Bruce Wayne allow the nefarious business man to control Wayne Enterprises?
5. Why does the nefarious business man contact Bane, of all people, to attack the Gotham Stock Exchange? Didn’t the movie imply that Bane was a known terrorist by the CIA? Aren’t there plenty of other criminal masterminds not wanted by the US government he could contact?
6. Why does Bane agree to attack the Gotham Stock Exchange? What advantage does that provide other than making his presence known which, given his plan, is something he likely wouldn’t want?
7. Why are there no repercussions (such as a suspension) for the deputy commissioner casually agreeing to stop pursing a man who basically committed a terrorist attack to go after Batman?
8. Why does Selina wear black leather and a mask consistently when it is clear she doesn’t care if her identity is known?
9. Why does Selina wear impractical heels while preforming acrobatic feats?
10. Why does Bruce trust Miranda so quickly?
11. What purpose does Miranda becoming Wayne Enterprises CEO do for her master plan?
12. How does Selina know Bane? How does she know where he is? Why does Batman not question any of this and then be surprised that it was a trap?
13. How come the prisoners in the hole keep referring to the child that escaped with genderless pronouns?
14. How come Bruce never asked if the child that escaped was Bane? Or, if he did, how come the “prison Alfred” didn’t correct him?
15. Why does everyone turn on the wealthy?
16. In the world of cell phones and wireless internet, how come the Gordon’s group couldn’t contact the outside world, especially since we see that electricity and television still worked?
17. How come no civilian resistance group pops up to confront Bane? Does the movie mean to suggest that Gotham is completely devoid of any former military service men and women that would rise up and organize?
18. Why do all the inmates ally themselves with Bane so quickly? Are not most former mob bosses or enforcers? Wouldn’t they go out and reform their gangs?
19. How come the US military cannot sneak into Gotham to take down Bane? Isn’t this the same military that dethroned Saddam in 2003?
20. How can Bruce easily sneak back into Gotham without being detected?
21. Miranda claims to have hated her father, but feels the need to avenge him and carry out his plan. Why?
22. How will the orphan center never discover the entrance to the Batcave?
23. Who actually names their son Robin?
24. How does John Blake actually intend to become Batman? From what we know, the guy doesn’t have the money, resources, training, or level of intelligence that Bruce has.
25. How come this list turned out to be much longer than I intended?
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1. Why does Bane engage in an elaborate escape sequence from a CIA plane to capture a doctor when he already had the doctor to begin with?
This is fucking hilarious.
2. What did Bruce Wayne actually do each day for the past eight years? How come he didn’t have at least a passing interest in what his company was doing?
He at least helped develop that nuclear power source.
3. How come no one cares that the hero police commissioner was mysteriously attacked and shot in the sewers?
Foley says to the other cops that Gordon is on his way out and politically unpopular. It was also shown in Batman Begins that Gordon wasn’t popular with the other street-level cops. I guess this is an answer.
4. How would bankrupting Bruce Wayne allow the nefarious business man to control Wayne Enterprises?
It’s a publicly traded company. It is feasible that the nefarious businessman bought a bunch of shares in the company or something. I guess this is an explanation.
5. Why does the nefarious business man contact Bane, of all people, to attack the Gotham Stock Exchange? Didn’t the movie imply that Bane was a known terrorist by the CIA? Aren’t there plenty of other criminal masterminds not wanted by the US government he could contact?
It was part of the plan of the League of Shadows, for which the businessman was to be handsomely rewarded, I imagine. I agree though that it is a stretch and it’s dumb.
6. Why does Bane agree to attack the Gotham Stock Exchange? What advantage does that provide other than making his presence known which, given his plan, is something he likely wouldn’t want?
Because it was imperative that Batman actually appear in the movie at some point. That’s only reason why.
7. Why are there no repercussions (such as a suspension) for the deputy commissioner casually agreeing to stop pursing a man who basically committed a terrorist attack to go after Batman?
No idea.
8. Why does Selina wear black leather and a mask consistently when it is clear she doesn’t care if her identity is known?
Because women in leather gain media attention (see also: ScarJo in Iron Man 2, The Avengers).
9. Why does Selina wear impractical heels while preforming acrobatic feats?
Because grrl power! Rawr!
10. Why does Bruce trust Miranda so quickly?
Because he’s out of options, and it is shown that Miranda was an initial investor in the failed nuclear energy thing.
11. What purpose does Miranda becoming Wayne Enterprises CEO do for her master plan?
It gives her access to the company resources, including the nuclear device.
12. How does Selina know Bane? How does she know where he is? Why does Batman not question any of this and then be surprised that it was a trap?
None of this makes any kind of particular sense, I agree.
13. How come the prisoners in the hole keep referring to the child that escaped with genderless pronouns?
Because otherwise it would have spoiled what was actually kind of a cool reveal.
14. How come Bruce never asked if the child that escaped was Bane? Or, if he did, how come the “prison Alfred” didn’t correct him?
Because it wouldn’t have fit in with how the film was written (this is a really poor answer, I know).
15. Why does everyone turn on the wealthy?
Because Occupy Wall Street! We are the 99%! How dare the rich have money! Etc, etc!
16. In the world of cell phones and wireless internet, how come the Gordon’s group couldn’t contact the outside world, especially since we see that electricity and television still worked?
This is a huge plot hole, I agree.
17. How come no civilian resistance group pops up to confront Bane? Does the movie mean to suggest that Gotham is completely devoid of any former military service men and women that would rise up and organize?
You could argue that people were just really disorganized or something. I have no idea why there wasn’t a resistance movement. There very well *could* have been, it just wasn’t shown on-screen.
18. Why do all the inmates ally themselves with Bane so quickly? Are not most former mob bosses or enforcers? Wouldn’t they go out and reform their gangs?
No idea.
19. How come the US military cannot sneak into Gotham to take down Bane? Isn’t this the same military that dethroned Saddam in 2003?
This is absolutely ridiculous. The notion that the government would just abandon a major world city is something that takes me out of the movie completely. You can’t tell me that, should a terrorist organization take over New York City, the government wouldn’t solve the problem after about 4 hours.
20. How can Bruce easily sneak back into Gotham without being detected?
Another huge plot hole that’s never explained.
21. Miranda claims to have hated her father, but feels the need to avenge him and carry out his plan. Why?
Because she believes in the end justifying the means I guess? This doesn’t really bother me.
22. How will the orphan center never discover the entrance to the Batcave?
No idea.
23. Who actually names their son Robin?
Mr. and Mrs. Yount, I guess.
24. How does John Blake actually intend to become Batman? From what we know, the guy doesn’t have the money, resources, training, or level of intelligence that Bruce has.
Because the kid has Moxie.
25. How come this list turned out to be much longer than I intended?
Because Dark Knight Rises is not a very good movie (I still like it, however).
3. Even if Gordon was politically unpopular, he was still the police commissioner! You’d think the media, at least, would pick up on that.
4. I guess the problem is that they don’t go into it other than the guy going “Bruce Wayne poor = me in charge! Mwhahaha!”
5. Maybe, but I got the impression, given how he was talking to the villain, the guy contacted Bane, not the other way around. And if that is the case, wouldn’t that be the biggest coincidence ever? The guy who works at Bruce’s company unknowningly contacts the one orgainzation that hates Bruce.
10. What about all the other board members (the ones that also appeared in the earlier entries) that he’s likely known all his life?
11. Did she really need that though? I got the impression that Bane already knew all of it, especially after the reveal that his lair just happened to be underneath Fox’s secret room of Batman stuff.
13/14. It is a case of the plot dictating the characters’ actions. Prometheus was very guilty of this as well.
17. Bane’s occupation was not depicted well. We are just told things are bad, but we never really see them.
19. Apparently, Seal Team 6 is not Batman canon.
25. Agreed.
Hey, I didn’t say they were good answers! Haha!
I think you nailed the problem. Too much showing versus telling. For a movie with a 250 million dollar budget, you wouldn’t think that would factor in so much.
“13/14. It is a case of the plot dictating the characters’ actions. Prometheus was very guilty of this as well.”
Let me explore Dark Knight Rises vs. Prometheus for a minute.
Dark Knight Rises is a great film and Prometheus is a mess of nonsense and ambiguity.
Prometheus barely touched on philosophical themes and then quickly abandoned them. It’s like Prometheus was trying to trick people into thinking the film made sense or that it had things to say when it didn’t. The characters in Prometheus constantly acted crazy and made a bunch of absurd assumptions.
Dark Knight Rises actually developed philosophical themes and I felt invested in the characters and the plot throughout. There are reasonable explanations for characters motivations and actions in Dark Knight Rises. Dark knight rises left it to the audience to assume that certain things happened offscreen in order for everything to make sense. But there are good explanations for most if not all of the ambiguous elements of Dark Knight Rises.
Also, most characters in Prometheus were incredibly flat and nonsensical whereas the characters in batman had good motivations for their actions and played off each other nicely.
Not to mention there was actually a lot of payoff in Dark Knight Rises whereas Prometheus left me with a headache because of how much nonsense it was. Even with a sequel on the way, Prometheus is just an utterly irreconcilable mess.
Uh, okay…
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that TDKR is at the same level of quality as Prometheus.
However, they do share the flaw of characters acting a certain way because the plot demands them to when they otherwise wouldn’t.
Dark Knight Rises is a far superior movie to Prometheus. I don’t think anyone here would argue that. You can’t say that DKR doesn’t have flaws though. It is an immeasurably flawed film. Character motivations aren’t nearly as crystal clear as you portend, either. John Blake, who is a character I like mind you, basically deduces that Wayne is Batman like it’s a fucking SAT question.
Let’s break down Blake’s logic:
All orphans act the way Blake describes.
Bruce Wayne, an orphan, acts this way.
Therefore, Bruce Wayne *must* be Batman.
That is extremely poor writing and logic and undeniable flaw in DKR. Other flaws include multiple cases of showing versus telling, especially so in the case of the Foley character, through whom we learn, rather poorly, that Gordon is on the outs and things are not as they seem in Gotham.
Look, I like Dark Knight Rises. It is an ambitious film and Nolan’s trilogy falls just shy of being one, long masterpiece of a series. But it is an extremely flawed movie.
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1. Why does Bane engage in an elaborate escape sequence from a CIA plane to capture a doctor when he already had the doctor to begin with?
A: my guess is that there was a need for Bane to do things secretively (he planned the whole plot of this movie for years, and even when he was at Gotham he was digging underground instead of showboating on ground). The CIA already knew of Bane and his connection to Dr. Pavel, so he staged a plane crash with bodies of CIA agents and the scientist – nobody would be aware of Bane wanting the scientist for nuclear purposes, until it actually happened.
2. What did Bruce Wayne actually do each day for the past eight years? How come he didn’t have at least a passing interest in what his company was doing?
A: like someone else said before, he was somewhat involved in developing the fusion reactor. He was also mourning the death of his friend/love interest Rachel, and in self-imposed exile.
3. How come no one cares that the hero police commissioner was mysteriously attacked and shot in the sewers?
A: Gordon was never popular. He was on his way out anyway.
4. How would bankrupting Bruce Wayne allow the nefarious business man to control Wayne Enterprises?
A: the businessman (Dagget) would probably be able to seize major shares.
5. Why does the nefarious business man contact Bane, of all people, to attack the Gotham Stock Exchange? Didn’t the movie imply that Bane was a known terrorist by the CIA? Aren’t there plenty of other criminal masterminds not wanted by the US government he could contact?
A: Because if had contacted someone else, “The Dark Knight Rises” wouldn’t exist. Are you hearing your own questions? This is a movie not real life! I’d get it if it was some real-life documentary stuff. You need to ignore a certain degree of “what ifs” for a movie plot to stand lol
6. Why does Bane agree to attack the Gotham Stock Exchange? What advantage does that provide other than making his presence known which, given his plan, is something he likely wouldn’t want?
A: He’d get more funds and artillery in return. And don’t forget he works for Talia (or Miranda Tate), who wants revenge on Bruce/Batman. They’d have wanted to draw Batman out and break him, while causing havoc on Gotham.
7. Why are there no repercussions (such as a suspension) for the deputy commissioner casually agreeing to stop pursing a man who basically committed a terrorist attack to go after Batman?
A: No clue. But really, in the large scope of things, its a useless question to ask.
8. Why does Selina wear black leather and a mask consistently when it is clear she doesn’t care if her identity is known?
A: That’s how she’s always been through comics and previous movies. Chris Nolan wasn’t just going to destroy tradition for the sake of being more practical lol.
9. Why does Selina wear impractical heels while preforming acrobatic feats?
A: Same as #8
10. Why does Bruce trust Miranda so quickly?
A: He had no other options. He needed to find a new CEO for Wayne Ent. to protect the fusion reactor.
11. What purpose does Miranda becoming Wayne Enterprises CEO do for her master plan?
A: I’m beginning to think you were asleep for half the movie. She is the criminal mastermind and even as her other identity as Miranda, she had been salivating over the prospect of seeing the fusion reactor. Bane only weaponizes the reactor AFTER bruce showed the gadget to Miranda *wink wink*.
12. How does Selina know Bane? How does she know where he is? Why does Batman not question any of this and then be surprised that it was a trap?
A: In the beginning of the movie she worked for Dagget (the businessman) and stole Bruce Wayne’s prints for him. Bane was the second part of Dagget’s plan, when he uses him to attack the stock market and bankrupt Wayne. Surely, a clever woman of Silena Kyle’s stature would have done enough background checks and snooping around to see what kind of men her boss was involved with, maybe she even came face to face with Bane too. Really, these things are just simple deductions. If movie-makers had to explain everything to unimaginative audiences, these movies would be 6 hours long.
13. How come the prisoners in the hole keep referring to the child that escaped with genderless pronouns?
A: that would ruin the whole twist at the end. besides, the grey hair man does refer to it as a tale of legend. it could have been a story passed on from people to people.
14. How come Bruce never asked if the child that escaped was Bane? Or, if he did, how come the “prison Alfred” didn’t correct him?
A: the prison Alfred likely didn’t know the child and Bane personally. The only one closest to knowing any of it would have been that bald doctor who keeps talking in foreign tongue. He was the one who treated Bane for his injuries.
15. Why does everyone turn on the wealthy?
A: Occupy wall street. ring a bell?
16. In the world of cell phones and wireless internet, how come the Gordon’s group couldn’t contact the outside world, especially since we see that electricity and television still worked?
A: Look at countries like China, North Korea in this modern day. Internet censoring is done on such a massive scale! China, a country of nearly a billion and a half people are successfully censored and monitored over Internet activity. Bane has been well-funded and have been patiently devising his plans, carefully. Wouldn’t have been THAT hard to black out Gotham from rest of the world over the internet.
17. How come no civilian resistance group pops up to confront Bane? Does the movie mean to suggest that Gotham is completely devoid of any former military service men and women that would rise up and organize?
A: Did you realize that Bane (or at least his boss Talia) had his/her finger on the trigger of a nuclear device? Any movement and its BOOM.
18. Why do all the inmates ally themselves with Bane so quickly? Are not most former mob bosses or enforcers? Wouldn’t they go out and reform their gangs?
A: Repaying a favor for bailing them out. Mobs aren’t just assholes that go around shooting. they understand the concept of give and take, in a lot more twisted way. Besides, in a state of anarchy, you side with the bunch that has most power.
19. How come the US military cannot sneak into Gotham to take down Bane? Isn’t this the same military that dethroned Saddam in 2003?
A: You sneak in individuals, not an entire military. Again, Bane/Talia BOOM theory comes to mind.
20. How can Bruce easily sneak back into Gotham without being detected?
A: Because he’s the frikkin Batman. How anti-climatic would it be if Gotham falls because Batman simply couldn’t find a way back in?
21. Miranda claims to have hated her father, but feels the need to avenge him and carry out his plan. Why?
A: Miranda never says she hated her father. She just says she couldn’t forgive him for casting Bane out. That doesn’t mean she hated her father for the man he was. Besides, she says that those feelings only lingered till Batman “murdered” her father. She wanted revenge, its her father after all.
22. How will the orphan center never discover the entrance to the Batcave?
A: Considering the way Bruce Wayne prepared for his “death” and resurrection of Batman in the form of Blake (e.g. the Bat-sign that Gordon broke in movie 2, giving Blake all the resources to carry Batman on etc), he must have prepared well – maybe sealed the batcave’s entrance from the Wayne manor permanently.
23. Who actually names their son Robin?
A: Hahah. Well I guess you can say the same for Robin Williams’ parents.
24. How does John Blake actually intend to become Batman? From what we know, the guy doesn’t have the money, resources, training, or level of intelligence that Bruce has.
A: Nobody expects Blake to become Batman overnight. Bruce Wayne picked Blake as his successor because of the kid’s ideology and passion for justice. If you recall from Batman Begins, it took Bruce 7 years of physical and mental training while in exile to become Batman. He will gain strength and intelligence through experience. As far as resources go, I think Blake inherited the entire Batcave and every resource he needs to carry on Batman’s name. Bruce showed Blake the entrance, its up to Blake to make his path.
25. How come this list turned out to be much longer than I intended?
A: Sorry to sound so cruel, but I think you just needed to raise the horizon of your imagination and deductive thinking to answer most of these questions.
This is the problem with the Nolan nerds. Nick writes up what could very easily be considered to be a tongue-in-cheek list of plot holes, inconsistencies, and illogical moments in this movie. As Nick and I have noticed over and over again, the answers that people have provided to these questions amount to “There wouldn’t be a movie if X hadn’t happened.” Don’t you see how that is incredibly bad writing?
Most of your answers are snarky and dismissive, but this one rang out as totally, stupendously dumb:
“15. Why does everyone turn on the wealthy?
A: Occupy wall street. ring a bell?”
As far as I know, no one in the states was ever motivated by the Occupy movement to outright beat down, rob, and castigate the rich in the physical manner that is portrayed in the movie. Was that a serious answer? I don’t remember seeing footage of poor people looting and seriously beating the rich to steal their possessions.
C’mon man, be real.
Especially since the Occupy Movement was never once mentioned in the film, and the movie was already well into production before OWS formed.
I get much of what you are saying, but it seems that a majority of your points boil down to “If it didn’t happen that way, there wouldn’t be a movie!” I’m sorry, but I don’t subscribe to the theory of ignoring fundamental narrative flaws. Look at something like “Batman & Robin” or even the “Star Wars” prequels. Those films are plagued with things happening in order for something else to happen (even if it makes no logical or narrative sense). People don’t ignore those flaws in those movies. TDKR, while entertaining, shouldn’t be allowed a pass.
I don’t want to sound cruel, but you really need to take off your rose-colored fanboy glasses and look at a film in an objective light.